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The Hoeflinger Podcast
Welcome to the The Hoeflinger Podcast, where Dr. Brian Hoeflinger and Kevin Hoeflinger delve into riveting discussions about life as a neurosurgeon, the world of medicine, healthy living, fitness, and anything else that piques their curiosity. Dr. Brian Hoeflinger, MD, brings his extensive 24 years of experience as a full-time neurosurgeon to educate and inform. Get ready for engaging conversations that will broaden your understanding of the medical realm and beyond!
The Hoeflinger Podcast
#18: The Power of Habits to Transform Your Life
In this episode, Dr. Hoeflinger and Kevin Hoeflinger explore the remarkable potential of habits to transform your life. Discover how even small changes can lead to remarkable personal growth and success. Through personal anecdotes and insights, they each share their experiences with habit formation and how it has positively impacted their lives.
Tune in for an engaging conversation that highlights the profound influence of habits and routines in our journey for personal fulfillment and achievement. Uncover the keys to harnessing the transformative power of habits as you embark on your own journey towards a better, more fulfilling life.
Tune in every week for new episodes of The Hoeflinger Podcast with Dr. Brian Hoeflinger and Kevin Hoeflinger.
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We have a special episode for you guys today. We're going to be talking about my dad's habits as a neurosurgeon and just the overall importance of habits and how they can transform your life. So how are you doing today, dad?
Speaker 2:I'm doing well, kevin, and I think it's going to be a great topic because I mean, obviously, without habits, how do we structure our life? And even for me, I mean without habits, how would I be a neurosurgeon and, you know, sustain that job at that level without having daily habits? So it's very important. I think it's a good topic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think habits have really become like a huge thing people talk about all the time, of like with the Tommac habits by James Clear and the power of habit by Charles Duhigg. It's really. People talk about it all the time, I think. But humans have been doing it forever. We're creatures of habit. Routines, things like that we're good at. So I think something that would be very we're. Going. To start with, I wanted to talk about your habits, kind of throughout med school, throughout residency, and then as a full time practicing neurosurgeon and father, and how they may have shifted or not, and then later in the episode just talk about the overall importance of habits, how other people might be able to establish habits and how it can help transform their lives.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think you know habits obviously change as your life changes. I mean, think about when I was a kid, right, and I was in grade school, what were my habits. I mean, I'd get up in the morning and probably have breakfast.
Speaker 2:Whether I can't remember if my mom would have it ready every morning or not, but then my habit would be to go to school, and that's a routine that you have. And then my habit would be, immediately when I got off of school, I had a paper out and every day, 365 days a year, I would deliver papers, and that was important to me, that was a habit, that was an accomplishment, it was something that I felt proud of, and I think that's what habits help you feel about yourself is that you're accomplishing something. And then maybe my habit later on was to go play with my brothers outside and or my friends. And then I had a habit of probably taking a bath at night or shower I remember what it was when we were younger and then, and then you go to bed. And so how does that all change as you get older? Well, obviously things change in your life as you get older.
Speaker 2:But you know, as a neurosurgeon going into neurosurgery residency, you know what would I do? I mean, obviously, in residency I get up very early. Sometimes I get up at 4 to 35 o'clock in the morning, go in the hospital, start running on patients. So that's my first habit is learning how to get up early. And then what's my routine? For a long time. I always try to take like five minutes in the morning and just kind of close my eyes before I go to work and just kind of clear my head, and so for me it's a habit and whether it does anything or not it makes me feel more calm for the day, and so that's maybe a form of mini meditation, I guess.
Speaker 2:But sometimes you know in residency, if there's an emergency and I had to jump out of bed, then I didn't do that, and then you know, are there habits that work? Like when I was a resident, I mean, is there a specific habit? I think my habits were to work hard and make sure I got all my work done. I mean that was probably my habit, was to make sure I got all my work done and did what I needed to do that day without skimping. And if I did that, that made me feel like I accomplished something, because for me accomplishment goes along with habits, I think. What do you think I mean?
Speaker 1:yeah, I think there's a. There's a that this is. The true power of habits is that when you do a habit it feels good. You get that reward and we'll get more into that later on in the episode but then it propelled you to doing more Like. So there's these things Charles Duhigg calls them cornerstone habits or keystone habits. So like exercising if you exercise every day, that makes you feel accomplished by exercising, but you also feel better and there's health benefits that positively drips over and carries over into a lot of aspects of your life. So I think I think that's kind of. I think the biggest habit I think I've always seen since I was a kid out of you is the fact that you go to bed early and you wake up early. You know sleeps very important and having you up early you always because you have to be able to. So that's always been something that I have noticed. That's a big habit for you.
Speaker 1:And a lot of sorry, but and a lot of successful people wake up early and are doing stuff like that.
Speaker 2:And I think you know some habits you can control and then some habits you can't control at the time. And, like you know, sleep I mean I can if I. If I'm not on call, I can go to bed whenever I want, get up whenever I want, right. But if I'm on call I may not get that full sleep that night. So habits are there, but that you know you can't always every day have the same habit that works for you. But they're their intentions, right?
Speaker 2:My intention is always to get a good night's sleep and I do wake up early because I'm always the most productive in the early morning. My brain and my thought process has always been the clearest. When I was in medical school I would always get up early and study for exams because that's one of the most productive. I had to write a paper I could write in the morning. I don't know. As the day wears on for me my brain doesn't become, as I guess it's not more cluttered maybe. So I'm not as productive or clear in thinking as I am in the Chris. I'm more crisp in the morning, I would say Are you like that?
Speaker 1:I think I think there's a special point to the morning or late at night For me. I definitely am leaning more towards like a night person, but I love the mornings because, especially as you get older, especially once you have kids and other things, you, just once you get into the flow of the day, your mind especially with technology, your mind is like there's so many things vying for your attention and your focus. So in the morning or late at night, when other people are asleep, or either, or it's just way easier, I think, to do things Like. For me it's way easier to read in the morning or last first thing in the morning or last at night.
Speaker 1:Same with writing and other stuff, but I think it really depends on each person. That's something. There's so much content out there about habits when I wanted to talk get into a little more. Today is discussing all the things about habits your habits is a neurosurgeon and the importance of habits but also there's a huge aspect of survivorship bias in habits. So people are fascinated with the morning routines of like billionaires or super successful people or their habits, but at the end of the day, there's a survivorship bias of like all these people who are successful, they might have those habits, but there's also someone with the exact opposite habits. That could potentially be that.
Speaker 2:So I have to ask I'm not quite sure, maybe a lot of people aren't either but what do you mean by survivorship habits Like what is survivorship? What do you mean by that?
Speaker 1:So survivorship bias. So if you see 5,000, say you see, let's say there's 10 companies and you see there's 10 companies that were started 10 years ago and now it's present day and you see one company and it's a billion dollar company and you see it does x, y and z and You're like, okay, so that company does Say x, y and z is marketing sales, and there's something else or something more specific, but that company is successful, maybe because of those things. But maybe those other nine companies that failed All did the same things. You just don't see that because those companies no longer exist or but by survivorship.
Speaker 2:Are you saying why did a company survive, why did it excel above the other ones, or why did it make it when other ones didn't?
Speaker 1:so let me put it in a different way of so say, 10 people want to be a doctor and these other ten nine of them didn't become doctors. One of them did become a doctor. If you look at the one person who did become a doctor and say, oh, that person studied every day at 6 am, you could be led to believe that if you study, at 6 am, you're automatically gonna become a doctor, but you're not seeing the other nine people who also studied that, potentially study that 6 am, but they didn't become they didn't make it man.
Speaker 1:So there's confounding variables. So survivorship bias is just Stating the fact that there's only the people. You only hear from the people that survive. That's the best way to put it, maybe I. So you're only hearing from the people that the companies that were successful or the people that were successful. You hear that surviving people right quote-unquote.
Speaker 2:So you're not hearing from all the people who failed, not failed or didn't follow through or didn't make it or whatever reason chains their mind. You know here from those people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly so that there's a huge thing with that where I think some people will say you're not automatically guaranteed to be successful Just because you wake up at 5 am Right, um, okay, or you're not automatically.
Speaker 2:You know there's examples right because I have to interject because I mean I read this stuff Sometimes. You know, you see, about the, the traits of a billionaire. Yeah, I mean they, here's what they do. I mean they get up early, right, they exercise every morning, they eat healthy, they work out every day, they read tons of books. So it almost makes you think that if you do all of that, that you'll be a billionaire, right.
Speaker 2:That's the exact yeah and it doesn't make you a billionaire just because you do those things. Most people aren't going to be a Billionaire, but it doesn't negate the fact that those are good things to do too, right exactly I think you can create when we're talking about habits.
Speaker 1:Like you said, you can't do some things, some routines or habits every day, but you're just trying to set yourself up for the most likely chance for success. I think it is so. You want to become a neurosurgeon. Then studying, waking up early, studying each day, you know, working at stuff that's gonna give you the. It doesn't mean you get to become a neurosurgeon, but that's gonna set up the greatest chance of success.
Speaker 1:Yeah right, You're only trying to improve your probabilities of success running the marathon. You slowly increase your mileage, you work on your diet and all these other things. It doesn't guarantee you'll be able to run the marathon. You could Get injured. That day you know I'm saying so.
Speaker 2:You set up the environment for success as much as possible, and Then you, then you work on it, and then you just keep going after that and so I think it'd be fun, like I'll does, I'll Define for you how I think Habits work for me and give an example that maybe you could do the same. So I think you know, let's get away from being a neurosurgeon, but so I think the best example I can have is when, you know, there was a time in my life where I just wanted to get healthy and I wanted to do something challenging, and so this was back my. You know, my son, brian, died in 2013 in a car accident, and I think any habit that you want to form has to have a stimulus, and so you know my stimulus and this is just my personal story but my stimulus was my son dying, and and all I could think of after he died is, you know, he'll never have a chance to do anything in life again, and, and so I wanted to think of something that was unique or challenging that I could do in life for my son, basically, to do something he's not able to do anymore, and so, when I thought about it, for me, doing an Ironman was like one of the most challenging things that I could think of in my mind. So so for me, I need a stimulus. My stimulus was Trying to do something after my son died to get healthy, and then the second thing I needed was Commitment, was what was commitment? And so what I did is I researched Ironmans and and and runs and things like that and how to go about it, and I committed to doing an Ironman in the future.
Speaker 2:Obviously, I started out by doing 5k runs and then half marathons and marathons and riding a bicycle, but my commitment was to doing an Ironman and then the biggest component really was dedication and, excuse me, dedication For me was everything, because every day when I would get home, when you're training for an Ironman it took a year you have to do some activity, whether it's running, bicycling, swimming or strength training. You have to do something every day. And you know, sometimes my days were long and I was on trauma call and I'd have, you know, four or five surgeries and I'd have to do consults. And I get home at 830 and I would still, whatever I had to do, whether it's dark out or not, I went and did that activity and and I committed to it and was dedicated to it and you know what happened it felt so good to accomplish something like that that I came home, did something that was good for me, and I accomplished something.
Speaker 2:And then what happened is those feelings of accomplishment built upon themselves, and for me, it became a habit, because every day, I would look forward to, you know, getting home and doing what I needed to do, because I just felt so accomplished after I after I would, you know, finish the activity. So in 2017, I completed a full Ironman and and I achieved my goal and I felt very accomplished, but it was only through Forming a habit, and that habit came by having a stimulus and then committing and then being very dedicated, and so, for me, that's how I form a habit, I think, because that was a habit of healthy living and Achieving something in my life that I wanted to achieve. I don't know if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:I think that makes a lot of sense. And One thing that's huge is yet you were, you were doing that and you were a full-time practicing neurosurgeon. So you like there is no excuse of time, like it's almost the busier you get if you're, if you know You're gonna do something, no matter what, you find a way to get stuff done one is.
Speaker 2:And also in the busy, I mean the busier I was, the more motivated I was, the more energy I had to like I must have a lot of energy, because I know I Be hard to think of doing that again, you know, but I'm because I think, another thing.
Speaker 1:It's just the idea of compounding and small winds adding up over time. You didn't like you said, you didn't jump in the full Ironman training of 10 plus hours a week. You started out with just a cut, like you did, a 5k ride than a half marathon, a marathon, a sprint, triathlon right, yeah half Ironman, full Ironman. So just like with any goal or any commitment, it's very daunting to look at that thing, but if you can work, backwards and break it down into smaller step, the small achievable steps.
Speaker 1:Yeah so I mean that that's the key is, if you can do that, start with where you're at, don't and don't end this day by day.
Speaker 2:Right, you got to just take it day by day, and and you always tell us statistically, how long does it take to form a habit?
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, there's there's tons of different things. Like the big one that always floats around is 21 days, but none of that Is like conclusive. So it can take anywhere from 21 days to like a year and a half. So it just it depends on the person and the type of thing. But but after a couple weeks it starts, because doesn't it feel it's way easier? So when you first start, say, running or exercising the first couple times, it feels like you're not doing much and it's really hard to get yourself to do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a lot more mental effort because you feel like you have an accomplishing, because this one isolated instant early on. Yeah, so.
Speaker 1:But I think by the time then, when you're three months later and you've been working out five days a week, going to the gym or doing your workout, you're run or whatever you- look for. If it's way easier because you just you just get there and once you start, it's, it's, you're doing it right. I think, I think that's the importance of it.
Speaker 2:I think that's the part of that is yeah, exactly part of it, part of a habit is routine, right? Yeah, I mean, that's what. That's what it is.
Speaker 1:Charles do Higg talks about in his book and James clear and talks about in his book atomic habits. It's just the idea of there's a habit loop. So if you can tap into that, once you create it of, you know the routine, the reward in the queue, then it's kind of a positive wheel. Now it also works negatively. You know that. That's why people was like smoking cigarettes or vapes and other things. That there's huge Alcohol is a huge one. It's a social thing. When you're in a social setting, like say you go to a bar, it's much more likely you're gonna have an alcoholic beverage, right.
Speaker 1:I mean things work in the exact or work in the same way, because you get used to that, and I mean, I think social media is a big one that can work like that too is. Sometimes you just get prompted with something like a notification on your phone about you know. It's like a, say, an Instagram notification. You open up Instagram and all of a sudden you realize you've been Swiping on Instagram and so you're.
Speaker 2:So you're saying you're forming a negative habit because of, if you know, routine for you, or?
Speaker 1:yeah, if you automatically like, every time you do that, you know you're gonna then look at stuff. Say but if it's in the middle of you trying to do focus work like studying right then it's, then it's negative, it doesn't have to be negative. There's lots of positives to you know I'm saying, but I think that's the key with habits is there's positive and negative.
Speaker 1:So you can work either to remove a negative or yeah establish a positive, and I think a lot of times they say like Replacing a negative with a positive is easier than just taking away a negative.
Speaker 2:So like. So how would you say? I think I think the biggest problem too, like it's just starting. Like right now I haven't been exercising much at all and I don't the it's dawning to think of starting again, because it's the motivation. I mean, you know you come home and the easiest thing to do is just sit on the couch or or get on your phone, and it's like I can sit on the phone for half an hour but you go to work out. It's like you're feel like you're dying. So so how do you, for people out there, I mean, what's the best way to try to get motivated and stick with it long enough to form a habit? Right, because that's part of the problem is staying motivated and not losing that motivation before you form the habit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think the the biggest thing and I think about the slot and when people ask me, I think motivation is the wrong, the wrong word. I think it's motivation Versus like drive or determination, because if you're motivated motivated it's very short-term feeling. It's hard to capture motivation and then have it. You might be motivated after watching the aspirational YouTube video, but then when you actually it's really cold outside and you need to go for a run, you're like, oh, you might not. The motivation is not there.
Speaker 2:It's good, good point. So motivation, short-lived, yeah.
Speaker 1:so if you, have driver determination of. I'm the type of person that's gonna do this, especially at the beginning. You just have to say do something. And you can't. You can't make, you can't compromise with yourself, you can't make excuses, because there's always that voice in our head. That's like you know what I've been working out it's 10 degrees outside. I don't need to go outside and and run like I'm already. I'm already good. But you know you can never think about. It's always the present moment you have to commit. If you commit to doing something, you have to do it and you can't, you can't compromise with yourself, you can't make excuses, you can't buy into that voice in your head telling you you don't need to do stuff.
Speaker 1:And I think the biggest thing is just doing something. Isn't it so funny, like I think a huge easy way is exercise or diet. So if someone is gonna miss their diet, max their diet up a little bit, they go all out. Instead of just saying okay, acknowledging that they had like some chips or something else, they just completely give up on it. Or you know, I mean I do the same same thing at times, like if I'm not gonna do a full workout, I'm like, okay, why should I even do the workout at all when it's better just to do 20 minutes or 10 minutes instead of doing nothing.
Speaker 1:Just go for a, even going for a walk is. But say you're traveling, even going for a walk for 15 minutes, that completely beats out. Just doing nothing and sitting in your bed all day, or I mean we're going all over the place here, but I think we're not okay, but no, I feel like we are, but I think the key is.
Speaker 2:But these are. But the things we're talking about are things that people, that people think all the time Like I think that too. Like what's the point of doing a 10-minute walk? Right, because everybody talks about getting your half an hour in each day and I don't have a half an hour, so what's the point of doing 10 minutes? And so what? Kevin says a good point, something's better than nothing. At least. If you did 10 minutes today, it's gonna lead to a habit and I guarantee if you do that 10 minutes a day, you're gonna start doing more 15 minutes, 20 minutes because you'll start feeling better. You'll get that positive reinforcement, you'll form a habit, you'll start more. I guarantee it. But it's just about having that mindset, because we aren't jumping around. But I think there's a lot of important topics like mindset. Right, you got to have a mindset.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I think, yeah, we don't have it in the most concise format, but there's just lots of things that I I think that I found out through doing stuff Like I truly have found out like exercise to me is definitely a cornerstone habit, keystone habit in my life when, if I'm exercising regularly, it's hard for me to be failing in a lot of other aspects, because if I have, you have to have consistency and drive and routine to be Exercising. It makes you feel better. If I'm exercising, I'm like, okay, I want to waste that by just eating junk food. I want to eat healthier than two because I then I know I'm like, okay, I want to make the most of the exercise. I just did diets a huge aspect of any exercise. If you don't eat well, you're just kind of wasting some of your exercise. It also gives me more energy to do things that I want to get done with work and everything else, and also it helps me sleep better, I know.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna sleep better when I exercise, so so what do you think like here's a good one. So say so. You gotta. Someone has a good habit going and they exercise every day and they've been doing it for a year. But you know they wanna start a new habit and it just seems daunting. So is there a way to transfer that energy, or whatever you call it, with the habit of exercise and to say I wanna start reading and so I gotta commit time to reading, but I don't really like it. So how do I start a habit of reading and can I use any of that energy from my habit of working out? You know what I'm saying Transfer and scissor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I mean, there's a couple of things.
Speaker 2:Like your habit replacement.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there's also like habit stacking, so doing habits in a row, so like every time getting the habit of every time that you're like first thing when you wake up, you can have it right after you brush your teeth I'm gonna read. Or, you know, playing off that habit of you already brush your teeth routinely reading right after or right before you're going to bed, when you're winding down, you read. Or you could do it right after I get back from a run. I'm gonna sit down and read five pages.
Speaker 2:So you've just done that, so you're tailing it right on something that you already have a good idea. Yeah, so because it's all trying to tap Habits all are tapping into kind of our automatic.
Speaker 1:You know, there's our conscious thought and there's our unconscious thought. When you're driving a car and you're going to work every day, you don't even remember that specific drive at a lot of times because you're automatically used to making all those turns.
Speaker 1:So it's just like if you get in the habit of doing something positive, it's almost you can work on autopilot a little bit. So you wanna, you just know that you're gonna jump into that. So, like with running, I use running locks, I run a ton. But just even the habit of putting on my shoes, I know if I can put on my shoes and get myself out, like warm up a little bit out the door, just no matter what it takes.
Speaker 1:If I'm five minutes into a run or like just a couple minutes in, I know I'm way more likely to complete that workout. But if I just keep thinking about it, it's. You know, it's that.
Speaker 2:It's just getting started, almost Like if you can just get yourself starting going, you know, get your clothes on, like say, it's cold out, you gotta get your heavy winter stuff on, you gotta get your shoes on, and it's like you know there's some effort that goes into it. But once you're out there, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like you're not gonna stop.
Speaker 2:You went through all the effort. Why are you gonna stop?
Speaker 1:That's your question about reading. I think the biggest thing with reading, too, is setting the consistent time every single day that you're gonna read. I think first thing in the morning and your last thing at night are two great slots. But whatever works best in your life, in your day to day, and commit just to reading five pages a day to start out. And then there's also other things, like maybe reading too. I think school's condition that you have to read certain books, read. Start by reading what you genuinely enjoy. What are you curious about? What do you wanna learn more about? When does reading feel easy? Which things do you enjoy reading? Start there. Don't force yourself to read some dry material you don't like.
Speaker 1:Start with just that, getting the habit of reading, and then you can slowly adapt to trying to get to things you want to read or you think you should be reading, but don't start there, because then it makes reading feel like a chore, not something that's pleasurable.
Speaker 2:So for you, you're pretty regimen. What's your big habits each day that you do? I just tell everybody, just give them a typical day of what your major habits are, that you enjoy, that you do, that you committed to.
Speaker 1:So, like you, I'm trying to wake up early. Earlier I wake up the better, so I try to wake up before 8 am. I mean even before 7 is best, because those hours in the morning I try to do things like read, write, meditate.
Speaker 2:You journal, don't you? Yeah, sorry, right, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:But I like to do all those things. It makes me feel I like the idea of winning the morning. I mean, I also exercise in the morning when I can, but I exercise at whenever I can fit it in sometimes. But I think those things, if I do those things in the morning, I've already feel like I've won the morning. If I win the morning, I'm so much more likely to win the day. You don't start the morning really strong and then just slouch around all day, or I should say I don't. So for me those are things that you know I start strong. If I wake up in the morning, I try not to look at my phone for the first couple hours. If I look at my phone first thing in the morning, it puts me in that mode of I'm just like that today.
Speaker 1:And obviously I fail many times and I do do things like that.
Speaker 2:And then you typically work like eight to four or 430.
Speaker 1:So I work remote in financing accountings and I work from nine to five.
Speaker 2:So that's what I meant in terms of I think I know.
Speaker 1:But that's what I meant in terms of if I just woke up at like 845, eight, breakfast quick, and then worked. Once I'm working, my mind sets in work and doing that stuff, I can't. It's hard. You don't like switching out of that, it's harder you know, so then, so it's those blocks of before work and after work. Those are when I can work on myself like my personal self, exercising, doing stuff that we wanna do, working on social media, you know all of that stuff.
Speaker 2:And Then, what's your evening routine, like, what do you do? That's really important to you.
Speaker 1:So the last month or so me and my girlfriend have been going to the gym together every day, or like five days a week after we're both done with work, so like five to six, six, 30, we do that, and then we usually will go pick up groceries from our local grocery store and then cook dinner.
Speaker 2:You cook dinner a lot together.
Speaker 1:But I mean that's something I like doing as a couple of eating healthy and cooking your own food. And I feel better when I cook my own food and then after that you know like doing again those things, like if I haven't read in the morning or wrote and other stuff, I'll do those at night. And then you know we watch, we'll watch a movie sometimes or do other things. I'll play video games with my friends sometimes, but just I like to save that till the end, like I don't like to start my day with those things. So I wanna make sure I've gotten all the positive stuff done before. You know, I used to do that in college all the time I make sure I was doing all my homework before I'd go socialize with friends or go do like go have fun per se, because if you have the fun first, it's easy to continue having fun and not then go.
Speaker 2:you know, I'm saying, and I think too, I was just thinking, like you know, cause sometimes I wonder if you journal every single day or you read every day, and what if you miss a day? And I was thinking about, like, I remember I was doing my Ironman training and you know, if you're just so, if you have to miss, if you're sick, you know, and you have to miss a one training day, you think like it's all gonna fall apart and I'm gonna do so much worse than Ironman. But you know, sometimes it's okay just to miss a session. The important thing is you pick it back up the next day. Or if you miss two days, you pick it up the third day. You don't just quit. You know what I'm saying. So I think it's okay if your habits like you miss a day of this or a day of that, it's fine, as long as you pick it back up, right? That's the whole point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think we think about habits a lot of times, like daily habits are great, but I think we think about habits a lot of times in the daily format. But a lot of things don't need to necessarily be daily, they just have to be consistent. So maybe every other day you do something, or you do something four times per week. But I agree with you completely. So if you're doing a big training say you're training for an Ironman I just did one four months ago If you miss a workout and then you're so worried about getting that done, you just have to. If you miss a workout, you just skip it and then the next day you get to the new workout and you just completely forget about that.
Speaker 2:Forget that one, right, you don't go back and do it, and especially if you're, I think that's sometimes the you have to think. It's a mindset thing, it's like a mind trick, you know Cause you feel like you. I missed that workout and my whole schedule screwed up. It's not just forget about that work and it wouldn't have mattered that much to you.
Speaker 1:Well, I think some people that's why they work out when they're sick, and that's counter productive Like working out when you're sick. The best thing you can do is just rest and recover.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:But it's very hard to do that To do that.
Speaker 1:But I think that's I mean, I think, just resilience in life and just many. Like almost any aspect of life, you never give up. So if you fall down eight times, if you can, if you get up the ninth time, you can never, you never can fail. So there's tons of people that I mean ourselves included we start and stop habits. There's have times where I'm completely locked in and dialed in doing all my stuff and there's times where I fall out of that and then the first thing you it feels hard to start again, but the first thing you got to do is just start somewhere again, get the ball rolling again. So the first thing is to recognize when you've fallen out of something and don't think about where you were, just think about how you can improve. I love the concept of improving 1% every day and then that compounds A lot of people that are really successful, are really good at the thing they do, like athletes, surgeons, other things They've gotten.
Speaker 1:They do the average or above average consistently every day, slash every week for many, many, many, many years. And then all of a sudden, when you see that person way like down the road which is the present for you, you just start like that person's incredible at what they do. How do they do that? But they've been consistently getting a little bit better every single day from the start.
Speaker 2:So they'll apply it to you. Well, that comes to pay. That means patience. You can't, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can't.
Speaker 2:You have to be patient with things I mean.
Speaker 1:Well, I think for you. So when you first started residency, when you hadn't done anything, I mean just starting out practicing surgery and stuff like that, I mean I think that's a you got a little bit better. How many surgeries do you think you did in residency and then, by the end, how much more comfortable did?
Speaker 2:you. Oh yeah, 100%, because it-.
Speaker 1:You want to talk?
Speaker 2:about that. Well, a lot of that's just repetition too. I mean, you just have to be there doing things to be comfortable with something, and so it seems daunting. And when you first go into surgery in your residence, like I can never do this on my own, that's what's in your mind. But then, as you're taught and you learn to do things step by step by step, and then you're patient and you do repetitiveness right, cause like habits are kind of like being repetitive, you keep doing it over and over and over until you get good at it. You know it's like anything.
Speaker 1:Well, I think that's with like if you have someone is your surgeon, you don't even have one like people are like it's so daunting that if you want to be a surgeon like surgery, especially a neurosurgeon after medical school you literally have to go to like seven years of residency. So that's very daunting. But I'm like, don't you want that? If someone's operating on another human and they have their lives in their hands, you've, you practice. It's not like it's just random. You practice that thousands and thousands of times Like so you know, and it's with someone who's trained already. So you get to learn under a safe setting and just over and over and over again you and then you understand that so well and then when you've been practicing, you keep extending on that. So now, when you've done over 10,000 surgeries, you feel very confident. And I think one thing I've heard you talk about from being a younger surgeon to a more experienced, slash older surgeon is when things unexpected, things pop up.
Speaker 1:So if you know there's bleeding, excess bleeding or you would be able to better describe it, but you know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and when I first started I mean when you're first starting out and you get out of residency and you're in the operating room by yourself, it's kind of scary. And you know you, the bleeding I had then it's like how do I control it? How do I stop it? Your blood loss is more. And now I can have the exact same problem and stop the bleeding in, you know, 10 seconds and have no blood loss. So it's just about learning. You know you have to learn how to do things at surgery and your comfort level. And as you get older and you've done more surgeries, you're more confident in doing different maneuvers that you wouldn't have done when you were younger, that you need to do the stop the bleeding.
Speaker 1:So again, you know so I think that because that's your work, that's your career, that's your job, we don't think about it, but in reality, the last 30 plus years includes your practicing years and when you're in residency, you've been in the habit of performing surgery and diagnosing patients and doing what you're doing. The biggest thing we're skilled at is the thing that we consistently do. So you don't think about it, but that your number one habit probably in life is your job. Probably yeah, which I think is fascinating. That's how people do it. I think there's a great saying from the military. I think it's the seals or the Navy seals, or it might be from somewhere else. I'm not positive, but it's you don't rise to the. You don't rise to your expectation. You fall to the level of your system slash habits. So what have been drilled into you is that's what happens when unexpected things pop up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then you know we actually did have an outline here, so we're. But I went to Kevin, had something written down which I want to hear what he says about it but and I kind of have an idea but it says willpower is a muscle, cause a lot of habits and accomplishing in life is willpower right, and so it depends how you define willpower and what willpower is. But then you're saying willpower is a muscle.
Speaker 1:So, like willpower is something, it's not an infinite source. So willpower you have to pick and choose. You know it can be worn down. So if you go to work all day and all these things have happened, you're much less likely to say work out or do the other things. You've been worn down. You don't maybe have the willpower to then go do something. So if you don't have something to fall back like, if you don't automatically say you were when you were training for Iron man as a neurosurgeon, if you didn't have in your mind in the system of hey, right, when I get home from work I'm gonna go work out automatically and you were used to that. Say you had a really long day of surgery and it had an extra toll on you or you're more stressed than normal, you might say, okay, I'm gonna skip today.
Speaker 1:You know it's easier for you to miss that workout.
Speaker 2:But are you saying like I'm taking it like willpower the more you use your willpower, the more you use your muscle, the stronger it will get? Is that what you mean by that?
Speaker 1:But I think, yeah, it's both sides. So that's what I'm kind of saying. But yeah, I think it's also in terms of the fact of willpower. The more you use it and stress it and accomplish things, then the more it can grow. You get it better While you're in the but then it atrophies and goes away, so when you're constantly If you're not using it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you're constantly say lifting weights, you're breaking down your muscles and they're building up willpower. If you're constantly doing that, you're tapping down your willpower and then doing things. You know you're building it up, but then if you stop doing things, it's gonna go away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:I mean that's and that's. You know, I've read books and I've on that and I've heard about that. But you know, and that's just my opinion, I've noticed that in my own life. But I mean, that's not a hard driven fact, I don't think.
Speaker 2:So I mean, I think it's been a good podcast because I think for people it's daunting to think how do I form a habit and how can I do what other people have done? You know, how do I do an Ironman and how's a neurosurgeon become a neurosurgeon?
Speaker 1:So I think by our discussion today you can realize that both of us think habits are pretty important and it's something that we caught like consciously think about and are constantly trying to improve on. And hopefully this is just our experience from what we've lived through and what we found for ourselves and hopefully there's something that you guys can pull out of that that's helpful to you. Maybe not, but you know, we'd love to hear from you guys. You can tag us, let us know what your habits are or just what habits you're trying to establish or to avoid. And again, I think the biggest thing is just start. Just start small, just start somewhere. Starting is definitely the hardest part, I think. Start somewhere and just work on getting a little tiny bit better every day, just, and if you go from there, I think great things can come over time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it was a really good episode today and hopefully you got something out of it and hopefully you guys can start some new habits.
